Saturday, April 27, 2013
2013 NFL Draft insta-analysis Part 6
By The 21st Century Media Alliance
Here are some notes from a chat involving various Media Alliance members as Day 3 of the NFL Draft unfolds. Participants include FDH Senior Editor Jason Jones, FDH Managing Partner Rick Morris, FDH Lounge Dignitaries Mike Ptak, Chris Galloway and Paul Pasek, Sportsology proprietor Russ Cohen, Raymond Smalley of DOU Productions and Ben Chew of That NBA Lottery Pick and Outside the Boxscore.
Chris: On my way to Erie to enjoy Day 3 with the one and only Matt Milano.
Paul: Milano cookies are a fantasy draft day staple.
Paul: Back on the clock. Here we go....
Paul: Barkley is now Philly-bound at the 98th overall pick. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
Russ: Perfect for Philly. Damaged goods for a damaged franchise.
Paul: Ace Sanders is a great football name.
Ken: Wow, Ace Sanders still on board!!
Paul: Raw Beep Beep Speed TEAM NAME.
Ken: I had Sanders as 3rd RD value selection.
Paul: Lots of value falling in this draft.
Paul: Browns are up next. Hold your breath, everybody
Russ: The Browns have just acquired Mark Sanchez! Congrats!
Paul: And now the Steelers are at 111?
Paul: Wonder what was involved with that Steeler trade?
Mike: We get a 3rd next year.
Paul: Hmmm ok. Wonder why they did that
Paul: It'll be a while now before they're up again.
Rick: 3rd round pick in 2014 to move down four spots? Can't argue with that.
Paul: Guess there was no one they were really high on there.
Rick: Based on Jason Jones’ Top 75 Overall (Most Talented) in our PRO FOOTBALL DRAFTOLOGY 2013, here are team rankings based on the first three rounds. The top player, Luke Joeckel, gets 75 points, all the way down to TJ McDonald at 75 getting two points. Congrats, Russ, because your New York Jets, based on Milliner (142 points), Richardson (116 points) and Geno (110 points), are the leader in the clubhouse with 368 points.
1 NYJ 368
2 Min 358
3 Cin 316
4 SD 270
5 Jax 246
Rick: 6 Caro 244
7 Phil 240
8 St L 224
9 NO 220
10T Ariz 204
10T Mia 204
12 NYG 188
13 Ten 186
14 GB 172
15 Den 168
16 Det 166
17 Pit 152
18 KC 146
19 TB 138
20 Pit 124
Rick: 21 Indy 120
22 Buf 118
23 Dal 114
24 Cle 108
25 Balt 102
26 Oak 92
27 SF 84
28 Chi 76
29 Hou 62
30 Wash 32
31T NE 0
31T Sea 0
Rick: A few notes, though. This doesn't take need into account, as the Jets arguably didn't need Richardson relative to other spots. And in a draft like this one, teams like SF, NE and Sea have a chance to make up ground on volume today based on the depth of what is left.
Paul: I see some posts online that people are mad that the Browns traded with a division rival.
Rick: Really surprised that a lot of the mouth-breathers in the Browns fanbase are taking offense! Look, I'm not even a believer in Banner and Lombardi, but a 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick.
Paul: I agree.
Paul: Lattimore to San Fran.
Rick: Holy cow. For a team already shaping up potentially as the best in the league over the next few years, to get the potential successor to Gore here is breathtaking.
Paul: Like we said yesterday, the rich get richer. Talk about value.
Chris: I think the Browns should just trade down out of this draft all together. ; )
Rick: Don't give them any ideas, Chris!
Rick: BTW, crushing my Day 3 Choco Taco as we speak.
Paul: Good stuff, those Choco Tacos. I tried Ben & Jerry’s cannoli ice cream last week. That was pretty good too.
Paul: Robinson to Jax.
Chris: And that’s why Jacksonville is still a lousy organization.
Paul: Browns up next unless they move to next Tuesday.
Paul: Matthew Stafford threw the ball 727 times last year. Wow….
Jason: Needless to say, really not happy about Lattimore to SF. Brilliant move on their part, but I really wanted him to go to a team I like. Quinton Patton was a really smart pick for SF as well.
Jason: Barkley to Philly is a head-scratcher. Must just be a value pick pure and simple.
Chris: Browns trade their fifth round pick to Ravens for their sixth round pick next year. Banner says, "Hey, Ozzie Newsome knows what he's doing so we are gonna take that pick because it's sure to be a good one."
Rick: Jason, the Barkley one is incredible value, but yeah, he doesn't seem to be a Chip Kelly QB. Then again, it's great news for the Eagles if this means they're going to be as pragmatic about implementing that offense partially the way that New England has done.
Jason: Jesse Williams this late is a flat out STEAL. And I'm factoring in the medical.
Paul: Browns finally on the clock.
Chris: Rambo, please. We need a free safety.
Jason: Indeed, Christopher, Rambo needs to be the pick.
Chris: Chip Kelly drafted Barkley out of spite – so a USC player never sees the field.
Rick: Chris, it won't be Rambo. Is there a time anyone can remember when this team made the obvious correct pick in any round? #TryingToProveTheyreSmarterThanEveryoneElse
Paul: Are you kidding me?????
Chris: We ARE trading out of the draft!!!
Paul: Why did we trade this pick to Indy?
Jason: Any new regime should have to take a three day course on the history of the franchise in great detail so that regime can figure out that every regime before them wasn't smarter than everyone else and it’s not very likely they will be either.
Rick: Joe Banner: seeking to corner the market on the 7th round.
Paul: This is unbelievable. Why not take Rambo?
Jason: The Browns: a 4th to PIT for PIT's 3rd next year. A 5th to INDY for a 4th next year.
Rick: A 2028 7th round draft choice and a used, unwashed ChuckStrong T-shirt. In other words, much better than the usual Banner/Lombardi moves.
Jason: Mayock is making the comparison that Lombardi comes from the Belicheck tree. and if he doesn't like anybody, he's going to stack picks for next year.
Chris: I don't hate the trades for next year. But they are clearly throwin up the white flag for this season.
Rick: Mike Lombardi is the Bizarro Bobby Beathard!
Jason: Granted, a safety is needed. But a white flag on the season? Who on earth could they get at this point that is not a safety, that should project to playing a significant role? I want Da'Rick Rogers to replace Little, but that is really about it.
Jason: I would love Tyler Bray to add competition at QB. But these picks would only add depth and special teams guys. The defensive front 7 (or 8, 9) is set, the offense is pretty much set for 2013....
Rick: Chris's run-in to defend Greg Little in 3...2...1
Jason: Can’t wait to hear this….
Chris: I'm wearing my UNC visor right now. Line up Little and Gordon on the same side of the field and create all kinds of pressure. Little improved a lot in his second year (basically his third playing the position).
Rick: Improved equals only dropped three of every four passes thrown his way. "UNC" is an interesting euphemism for "rose-colored." #KeepTrollinTrollinTrollinTrollin
Chris: No way as colored as your scarlet... Everything....
Jason: How about this, if we suspend reality and assume they can get their hands on Da'Rick Rogers. Big difference is Rogers, unlike Little, catches everything in his receiving radius. They are similarly strong. Rogers is faster. Rogers runs better routes. Rogers has a competitive attitude that Little has never shown. Rogers is a blue-chipper with baggage. It’s the baggage part that brings me back to reality. They won't draft him for that reason alone. With that said, I don't dislike Little. I just don't see him as a long-term solution alongside Josh Gordon.
Jason: Here's the problem as a fanbase. We, whether fans of the college team a kid comes from or not, are more than happy to say, "But he's improving. Give him a chance to develop. He's got great potential to be special down the road." We need to get over that idea. Because this league doesn't allow for that kind of time or wishful thinking. Ultimately they all are Dennis Northcutts. We tend to be content with a 70 with potential instead of going after the guy that's a 90 right now.
Rick: And they're not taking a WR after trading for Bess anyway -- get ready for the front office spin about how Bess basically WAS a draft pick. And so too was Gordon (a great one), but that's on the previous regime, which hit more than missed even though these ungrateful choads who inherited an improved roster will never admit it.
Chris: I'm not that biased. I just think Little is poised for a breakout season in Year Three and giving up on him now is silly. After this season, if he is not there, then I agree, time to move on. I am not sentimental.
Rick: My best imitation of all the ahole Browns fans on Facebook and message boards blindly backing the front office: "Oh, yeah????? If Rambo is so great, why is he still there? For all you know, he's got AIDS! Mike Lombardi is smarter than you!"
Rick: Guys, I'm thinking of switching to a Kenjon Barner hairstyle. Any backers of the move?
Chris: Yes. Do it.
Jason: "Poised for a breakout season" That's Browns spin if ever I heard it. I think the bigger point here is:
Steve Smith (CAR)
Didn't need 3 years to break out. WRs picked in the first four rounds need to produce. Teams, more importantly management staffs, don't have three years to wait on a guy.
The #66 best WR, according to NFL.com, is Greg Little. Now granted, NFL.com's list doesn't mean anything. But it is a quality barometer. 66th best WR in the NFL insinuates that he is not a starter.
Chris: Anyone else think Bruce Ariens looks like every starter at every public nine-hole golf course in that USA Football commercial?
Rick: I wouldn't say Ariens looks as classy as a public golf course starter, but other than that, yeah.
Jason: Bruce Arians, bringing back Kangols, one press conference at a time.
Jason: The people that say, "If he's so good, then why hasn't he been picked, clearly the front office people know more than you do" makes me want to punch that person in the face. In most cases, as is true in this case, teams overvalue the wrong details. They are too worried about everything else and forget to scout the player.
Chris: How many on your list played one year of WR in college and then missed a year before being a rookie? That said, I agree Little is probably about #66 currently.
Jason: Really? That's what I'm talking about. That's an excuse. If this team to ever really compete with the top teams in the league, we can't rest on the "yeah buts." If he misses a year, gets drafted and catches 70 balls, moves the chains and finds the red zone, then great. But if not, time to bring in someone who can.
Rick: My entertaining trolling aside, while I do not share Chris's optimism about Little, there is a school of thought that the third year can be a breakout one for physically-talented WRs. Again, we should be so lucky in his case, but it has happened with some others.
Jason: Bottom line, I love Josh Gordon. And Greg Little has been the next best thing we've had in a while. I don't think he's bad. I just think there should be an expectation of production. And three years is as long as I'm willing to give anyone, especially when there are Demariyus Thomas, Victor Cruz, and Brandon Marshalls almost every year.
Chris: His rookie year his QB's were garbage with a brain dead offense and shi&&y coach! I'm not disagreeing with you about excuses, but dude it's not like he was playin for the Pats and Tom Brady.
Rick: I disagree, Chris, Colt McCoy was his QB.
Rick: From the fine Jamey Eisenberg at CBSSports.com, here’s some WRs who have had the third-year breakthrough: Michael Crabtree (sure looked like a bust a year ago, just saying), Percy Harvin, Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Greg Jennings, Stevie Johnson, Sidney Rice (admittedly hasn’t sustained it, though), Chris Carter, TO and Keyshawn.
Chris: I don't expect Little to put up huge numbers bc Gordon is a beast and the #1. We need Little to become the #2 I have always said he can be.
Jason: I'll give you Crabtree. Percy Harvin has 3,300 yds in four years, injuries or not. Roddy White is absolutely true. Reggie Wayne is questionable, because he was productive as a #2 on good team. Greg Jennings had 900 and 12 TDs in Year 2. Steve Johnson is right. Cris Carter took like five years but he also played in a time when teams were afforded time to develop players. Keyshawn produced from Say 1. He didn't put up first-rounder production until Year 3, but Year 1 was almost 900 yds and 8 TDs. T.O. also was 900 and 8 by Year 2.
Rick: As I said in a text to Paul, who knew that me trolling Chris about his Tar Heel would lead to our best, most sustained philosophical debate of the entire draft (so far)? #AccidentalGenius
Chris: And for the record: I have said since day 1 that Little is a #2, not a #1. Rick can back that assertion up. But he probably won't just for the sport of it.
Rick: I don't recall your exact characterization, so I'll accept that. I don't like spending a second-round pick on a guy who won't project as a #1, however.
Chris: Well they might have, but I didn't. I saw him as a solid #2 prospect.
Rick: Remember the context: they rejected a chance to draft Julio Jones, who I wanted, then trotted out Little like, "Hey, we got our cake and ate it also!"
Jason: Shawn Phillips to fill the void left by "FAX-Gate."